Fate, Pharaoh, And A Fart

A Case Of Bad Gas

Earlier this week, I was making Salaatul Isha at a local Masjid when someone in the row before me (I was in the last row) passed gas.

He didn’t just pass gas. He farted. The whole Masjid had to have heard it. Your Masjid probably heard it too.

Funny Things That Happen In Prayer

It was a whopper. And it actually sounded…wet.

Praying next to me was a teenager. He was literally shaking with compressed laughter. He was trying to hold his laughter in but was doing a poor job. I could hear him laughing under his breath in Sujuud (prostration).

Ten years ago, I would have had a hard time holding my laughter in also. Heck, maybe even three years ago.

But this time, it was pretty easy (Alhamdulillah).

The temptation to laugh was definitely there. I don’t think the temptation would have even come up had it not been for that boy next to me trembling like an old car. But hearing him laugh made it easy for the Shaytan to make me want to laugh.

However, every time I felt laughter coming, I forced myself to remember the many, many people I buried over the past year and a half working for the Muslim community in Birmingham, Alabama.

I remembered the many bodies, wrapped in white cloth, of all sizes and shapes being lowered into the ground.

I remembered ordering the backhoe driver to fill the graves up and watching the buried bodies quickly disappear beneath the earth.

I remembered helping the families fill out the death certificates for the state records, consoling them, advising them to be patient, reminding them to pray for their family.

I remembered locking the gate on the Muslim cemetery on the way out (I was often the last one to leave), knowing that after I left, that person would soon be visited by two angels.

When I remembered these things, all humor drained out of my body.

Benefiting From Tragedy

Dealing with Muslim funerals were always demanding and emotional.

But they were also spiritual.

After burying so many people, I soon found myself yearning to learn more about Islam, to become a better Muslim, to spend my life spreading the message of Islam.

That was part of the reason I reignited this website back in July 2010.

If you’d like to support ILM, buy a product! I would suggest Rekindle The Flame, advice for Muslim couples.

But I’ve noticed of late, as my knowledge (and hopefully my faith as well) has increased, some of my articles are a little edgier. There’s a little more bite to them.

I don’t apologize for that. I don’t mean to offend anyone; I just want to spread the message of Islam. I wish I could please everyone while doing this; but I know that’s impossible, ineffective, and weak.

An Atheist’s (I Think) Comment

Nonetheless, I will be tolerant of any Muslim who wants to learn more, or is lacking in certain qualities. I will also be tolerant of any non-Muslim who wants to understand Islam more, even if they don’t want to convert.

But when someone has something smart (or dumb) to say about Islam on this website, that’s when the gloves come off.

This is why I decided to turn my response to the following comment from the article posted here, into a full article itself.

Mr Ibrahim…..I read your column with interest – I am not a Muslim and personally can’t believe in a Creator who demands his creations to put him on a pedestal and worship him 5 times a day with strict conditions re washing beforehand

…..I don’t expect my children to worship me or wash their hands before talking to me….and I created them! But I am impressed by your patience in answering the questions of non-believers….so many Muslims take great offence at questions about their beliefs.

Belief in pre-destiny , it seems to me leads to all sorts of questions – and the questions here show that a lot of believers are struggling to get to grips with it. You told someone that if they got murdered, it was because God allowed that murder (- for reasons best known to him) to take place ie….it was pre-destined.

On this basis, why do Muslims get angered for example, at Salman Rushdie – who only wrote his books…because God allowed him to??? Also, the illogic of this reasoning is further highlighted when , for example, you consider babies being hacked to death in African countries…..God allowed this???

or when a plane crashes killing everyone on board…..God allowed all this people to come together….in order for the engines to fail and all die???? Come on….can’t you see the illogicality of this train of thought?

How much more logical to accept that like all accidents and good fortunes that it was just coincidence rather than a divine act of God.

The questioner (named A. Syam) left another comment which I’ll refer to later.

Judging from his name, I believe A. Syam to be of Indian descent, and I’m going to assume he’s a male too (forgive me if I’m wrong; just an educated guess). Also, his IP address has him as being from the UK, so presumably he has a decent education.

Before diving into this, let me first remind my Muslim readers that Allah has already communicated with us. He has given us His communication in the Quran and it is perfect and without flaws.

Nothing New Under The Sun; Not Even Doubts

Allah has answered all of Mr. Syam’s questions in the Quran. The hypocrites and disbelievers during the time of Prophet Muhammad asked similar questions.

Like many others before him, his questions are always the “Why does God do this…” and “Why won’t God do that…” It’s like everyone has an opinion of what Allah should do and how Allah should act.

And those who associate others with Allah say, “If Allah had willed, we would not have worshipped anything other than Him, neither we nor our fathers, nor would we have forbidden anything through other than Him.” Thus did those do before them.

Chapter 16 Verse 35

But the interesting thing is that all of these people (Mr. Syam included) really do worship a god. He doesn’t call his god “Allah” or “God.”

He calls his god “fortune.” Or “coincidence.”

How much more logical to accept that like all accidents and good fortunes that it was just coincidence rather than a divine act of God.

How is that logical? How is saying a mysterious, invisible, force named “Allah” caused something to happen more illogical than saying saying some mysterious, invisible force named “coincidence” caused something to happen?

Fate And Destiny In Islam: Revisited

So right there, his argument is null and void. He just wants me to worship his god of “coincidence” rather than Allah. Which to me, sounds very illogical since “coincidence” can neither punish nor reward me.

Okay, now let’s deal with this comment piece by piece. From this point on, I will be addressing Mr. Syam.

I am not a Muslim and personally can’t believe in a Creator who demands his creations to put him on a pedestal and worship him 5 times a day with strict conditions re washing beforehand

…..I don’t expect my children to worship me or wash their hands before talking to me….and I created them!

Alright, now it doesn’t take a genius to know you did not “create” your children. You had sex with your wife/girlfriend (once again, I’m assuming you’re a man) and that was it. Everything else was on autopilot. Other than contributing your genetic code, you had very little to do with the “creation” of your children.

And on the off chance you’re a woman, the same still applies. You were impregnated and Allah (you might say “nature”; another one of your “gods”) took care of the rest.

You said you can’t worship a God demands you put Him on a pedestal and worship him? That doesn’t make any sense at all. What kind of god would you prefer to worship? One that asks you to denigrate and curse him? Is that why you worship coincidence and fortune? Because it’s easy to curse bad luck (another name for coincidence) when things don’t go right?

You told someone that if they got murdered, it was because God allowed that murder (- for reasons best known to him) to take place ie….it was pre-destined.

I believe you’re referring to this comment from another poster:

God knew that the person was going to kill you.

The Right path must have been shown to the killer but the killer rejected the path.

God knows that the person may do a bad thing and will make him feel that thing is wrong but if he rejects that its on him.

God authorized your death for a reason that only he knows (sometimes its called El 3ebra = sign to others )

And my response was:

Interesting comments Tamer. For the most part, you are right. God does what He does for reasons He only knows.

You must have misunderstood me. Let me break it down:

  • Allah knows everything that is going to happen, both the good, the bad, and everything in between (He is All-knowing, after all).
  • Nonetheless, He has given man free will (not the fatalistic, nihilistic belief you are accusing us of). Certainly, you will not dispute that you have the freedom to make your own decisions and that Allah is not forcing you to do anything. Because if you did, that would mean you believed in Allah, in which case this whole conversation is pointless.
  • Allah is The Most Just. You don’t believe in Allah anyway, I’m not going to waste too much time proving this to you.
  • Since Allah is the most just, and since mankind does have free will to make his own decisions, both good and bad, there must be reward or punishment for those decisions. Otherwise, there would be no justice.

Sounds pretty simple to me.

On this basis, why do Muslims get angered for example, at Salman Rushdie – who only wrote his books…because God allowed him to???

This is where you start sounding illogical again.

Do you mean to say that you would rather God step in and punish everyone, immediately, for every single bad thing we do? If you do, you’re not the first.

And when they come to you, they greet you with that by which Allah does not greet you and say among themselves, “Why does Allah not punish us for what we say?” Sufficient for them is Hell, which they will burn, and wretched is the destination.

Chapter 58 Verse 8

Like I said, you’re not saying anything that wasn’t said 1400 years ago.

Anyway, just because we believe Allah allows some people to do evil, doesn’t mean we shouldn’t get angry about those people doing that evil.

Yes, Allah allowed Salman Rushdie to write his book. And Allah also allowed some Muslims to get angry. Why should one event nullify the other?

Your words smack of arrogance. Not only do you presume to know how Allah should act, you also presume to know how we Muslims should act! It’s like you expect us all to drop what we’re doing and just worship you since you think you know better than Allah and 1.5 billion Muslims.

To Pharaoh and his establishment, but they were arrogant and were a haughty people.

Chapter 23 Verse 46

And (Pharaoh) said, “I am your most exalted lord.”

Chapter 79 Verse 24

Allah Has You Pegged Perfectly

I can go on and on, but the rest of your comment is just more of the same. As for your followup comment:

Nice one!
Meanwhile, please consider another point which I would like to raise albeit somewhat politically sensitive : If Allah/God either decides to allow or disallow someone’s action and the outcome is deemed to be ‘Allah’s/God’s will’ (ie Inshallah),

that would imply Allah/God permits the suicide bombings so prevalent in the Middle East and consequently the loss of innocent life. Indeed, nearer home and today’s court hearing – Allah/God allowed Anders Breivik to slaughter 70+ innocent students.

Indeed, nearer home and today’s court hearing – Allah/God allowed Anders Breivik to slaughter 70+ innocent students. It would further imply that Allah/God allowed Josef Fritzl to keep imprisoned his daughter for 24 years and constantly rape her.

How an ANY creator allow this sort of action???

It is for this reason that I don’t believe prayers work….if Allah/God intervened in peoples lives directly, surely he would have done so in these horrific cases.

You’re pretty much saying the same thing: “If Allah exists, why does He allow this to happen?”

First you asked why does Allah allow natural disasters and accidents to happen. Now you’re asking why does He allow evil people to evil things. Well, let’s take your logic to its inevitable conclusion.

Just how much should God intervene? Should He not allow any natural disasters at all? Should He have not allowed the 2005 tsunami? Or the 2010 Haiti earthquake?

Should He have also stopped the floods in Bangladesh and Pakistan the past two years? Should He have stopped Hurricane Katrina? Should He have stopped the Alabama tornadoes last year that killed hundreds of people?

What about disasters that happen to other creatures? When it rains, some bird’s nest somewhere gets destroyed. There are some flies somewhere drowning in a puddle of water even as we speak. For these creatures, these are natural disasters. So using your logic, Allah should not let any of these things happen.

And you also believe He should stop all bad people from doing all bad things all the time. But how bad does something have to get before you’d expect Him to step in?

You say He should have stopped the Norwegian shooter and the suicide bombers. What about other bad people who do bad things? What about burglars? Pickpockets? People who download kiddie porn?

Do you really expect God to personally intervene in every bad thing that every person does? If not, at what level should He do so? Only when a death occurs? Only when a rape occurs?

Do you think He should have stopped the corrupt bankers who caused the current global recession? Should He do something about folks who cheat on their taxes? What about kids that steal cookies from their mom’s cookie jar?

I think it’s obvious that your argument is pointless and without merit.

Atheism Defies Logic

It is not us Muslims who are illogical.

It is you.

Your logic, as you have put before us, makes no sense.

Besides, this is not a question of logic. This is a question of belief.

You simply do not believe in Allah. That is what this all boils down to.

And since you like talking about what Allah should and should not do, I’ll leave you with this one to chew over:

But those who deny Our signs are deaf and dumb within darkness. Whomever Allah wills – He leaves astray; and whomever He wills – He puts him on a straight path.

Chapter 6 Verse 39

Spread the word

10 Responses to Fate, Pharaoh, And A Fart

  1. Thanks for your reply. You are of course correct – I am both Asian and male….and indeed live in the UK. You’ve given quite an erudite reply to my question and I need to consider the points one by one before I can make a reply which I will do in a few days. One point though – you are taking the standpoint that the Quran is the definitive and only source of the truth whereas I don’t accept this. Indeed – although I am a baptised Christian, I do not even accept the Bible to be a definite source of the absolute truth as some Christians do because I believe ALL holy books are subject to interpretation. Furthermore…..I have constant doubts as to whether God even exists 50% of the time – so it’s kind of meaningless to point to the Quran as being the authority of anything you say. Neither will I quote the Bible as a source of truth….as no doubt you will almost certainly be better versed in it than I am!(Although I may make passing references to certain passages now and again) What I am trying to do is to engage you in is a sensible discussion/debate on your beliefs – and why you believe certain things which to a rational non-believer – sounds at best, highly improbable. Nevertheless, I hope you will continue – not least of all, my comments must be doubts and questions which less learned Muslims than yourself must have but are perhaps too apprehensive to raise with anyone.

    A. Syam

  2. First, lets move away from the standpoint that you have the absolute truth held within the teachings of the Quaran. Jews say the same about the Torah, Hindu’s about the the Gita, and Christians about the Bible, Mormons about etc etc etc……the very fact that all of these different (and countless factions) each argue THEY and only own the absolute truth makes the whole concept pointless here. On this basis, quoting from the Quaran as a source of proof or evidence has no merit.
    You wrote:
    So right there, his argument is null and void. He just wants me to worship his god of “coincidence” rather than Allah. Which to me, sounds very illogical since “coincidence” can neither punish nor reward me

    You logic is flawed. I don’t (or want you to) ‘worship the god of coincidence’. There is no such thing. Coincidence is purely the acceptance that something has occurred without any outside spiritual or unworldly influence and the only forces affecting that occurrence are physical ie heat, gravity etc etc – all things which can be measured.
    Also – why do you feel that mankind has to be rewarded or punished ? Coincidence by it’s very nature precludes this concept.
    You wrote:
    Alright, now it doesn’t take a genius to know you did not “create” your children. You had sex with your wife/girlfriend (once again, I’m assuming you’re a man) and that was it. Everything else was on autopilot. Other than contributing your genetic code, you had very little to do with the “creation” of your children.

    When a sculptor creates a statue, he moulds clay with his hands to create a masterpiece (or not as the case may be!). The person digging the clay out of the ground isn’t given the accolade of creating that statue! The very fact that my genes are passed onto my kids is evidence enough that I and my wife created my kids – and because we chose to. Also I do find it most difficult to accept that a mere rubber sheath can be used to thwart the Almightys wishes!
    You wrote
    …..Is that why you worship coincidence and fortune? Because it’s easy to curse bad luck (another name for coincidence) when things don’t go right?

    I don’t bow down or carry out any rituals, or in any manner worship coincidence. I have to quote a favourite saying of Mr Spocks (Star Trek fame) here:
    Spock: ‘random factors seem to have acted in my favour’
    Dr McCoy : ‘You mean you were lucky’
    Spock : ‘I believe that’s exactly what I said’ 
    Point is when I throw a penny coin up, I accept the laws of probability that it has a 50/50 chance of falling either heads or tails up. It may turn up heads 50 times on the trot – thats probability for you – but certainly God doesn’t affect it.

    You wrote:
    Since Allah is the most just, and since mankind does have free will to make his own decisions, both good and bad, there must be reward or punishment for those decisions. Otherwise, there would be no justice.

    But why must their be justice?? Leave any God out of the equation, and the world runs perfectly well as it has done for the last – however many millions of years. I think it is a failing of mankind that he has a need to believe that in the same way there is cause and effect in the physical world, the same must also apply in the spiritual world – when there is clearly no evidence to support this theory other than ones own belief system.
    You wrote:
    Do you really expect God to personally intervene in every bad thing that every person does? If not, at what level should He do so? Only when a death occurs? Only when a rape occurs?
    Do you think He should have stopped the corrupt bankers who caused the current global recession? Should He do something about folks who cheat on their taxes? What about kids that steal cookies from their mom’s cookie jar?
    I think it’s obvious that your argument is pointless and without merit.

    Why? You can’t simply dismiss my theory without explaining why this argument is pointless and without merit. If God exists and all time is pre-planned and written (as you believe) then the absence of his intervention is clear evidence of the lack of any God .
    AT this point I have to add that you are a Muslim because you have bee brought up as a Muslim, very likely within a Muslim family. Had you been born in a Jewish family, you would have been a Jew and followed that faith system, or perhaps a Sikh, or a Hindu. Your background therefore has a very clear influence on your faith system. I say this because your proposition that you have the real truth as against the other belief systems is flawed for this reason.
    Finally, I can’t help but comment on something you said about Jesus – I’m not arguing he was or was not God as Christians believe – but you argued that if we found his DNA we could replicate him …. which would therefore ‘prove’ he was therefore a man and could not possibly be God in any form – but this argument doesn’t hold water because according to the Bible, Jesus ascended to heaven on a cloud, so you’d not be able to lay your hands on any of his DNA ever! Another one of your poorly laid out arguments I’m afraid .
    A. Syam

    • I’m very busy these days and wanted to give others the chance to respond to A. Syam’s comments without interference. Except to delete his duplicate comments, I did not change or modify or delete anyone’s comments.

      We can go back and forth like this until the cows come home. I’m only responding to clear up any misconceptions in my writing.

      As for moving away from the Quran, there’s no way on Earth (or in hell) that I’m going to do that. For one thing, I’m not using the Quran to prove anything to you.

      I know full well you don’t believe in it. I use the Quran to prove to other Muslims that Allah has given us the answer to any and every argument against Islam that you can possibly bring up.

      My use of the Quran is for the benefit of my Muslim readers; not you.

      Whether you call it worship or not, you give “coincidence” and “fortune” the same power that we Muslims give Allah. You advised us to say these things happen because of “coincidence” and “fortune” instead of Allah’s will.

      Therefore, you are proselytizing the replacement of Allah for “coincidence” and “fortune.” These are your words; not mine. You can twist them any way you want after the fact, but you said them.

      You said you accept the “Laws of probability.”

      I accept the “Will of Allah.” Yes, that penny may find it’s way on heads 50% of the time and it may just as well not. Either way, it happened because Allah willed it to happen.

      So following your same logic, you’re going to advise us to give credit for that penny falling whatever way it fell to probability, completing your Trinity: Coincidence, Fortune, and Probability.

      However you put it, you are giving a mysterious, invisible force credit for that penny falling whichever way, yet call us Muslims illogical for giving Allah (mysterious, invisible force)credit for the same thing.

      Whether you worship your god or not, you still ascribe it powers we reserve only for Allah.

      “But why must their be justice??”

      Bad question. All mankind desires justice which is why any successful society creates it’s own justice system in some way. No point in going too far in this; it’s obvious there must be justice.

      “Leave any God out of the equation, and the world runs perfectly well as it has done for the last – however many millions of years.”

      Just because you say something does not make it so. I will counter with the argument: “The world has only run well because of Allah.”

      Once again, we can back and forth like this.

      “If God exists and all time is pre-planned and written (as you believe) then the absence of his intervention is clear evidence of the lack of any God.”

      That’s not exactly what I believe (you really should read the other articles on this site about fate and destiny). And that’s a tremendous jump in logic.

      Your logic is as follows:

      1. If we believe everything is pre-planned (not exactly true, but not gonna get into it now).
      2. Then God must directly intervene in everything.
      3. Therefore if He doesn’t, then He doesn’t exist.

      That’s mind boggling.

      Look, I gotta go pray to my Invisible-Mysterious Force called Allah. I’ll finish this up later.

  3. Yet one more comment…..you wrote:
    It is not us Muslims who are illogical.

    It is you.

    Your logic, as you have put before us, makes no sense.

    Besides, this is not a question of logic. This is a question of belief.

    You simply do not believe in Allah. That is what this all boils down to…….

    Yes. You are correct in that I find belief in any deity somewhat perplexing….because it IS illogical. The world rotates around science and facts. It is what puts metal aeroplanes in the air, heavier than water ships to float, mobile phones, computers, the internet etc etc etc. ALL work due to LOGIC and physics AND probability. Absolutey NOTHING goes against the laws of physics. But you would have me accept total illogic in accepting a God who can’t be seen, doesn’t manifest himself in ANY way that can be scientifically proven. You and other religious beleivers rely on ancient texts which were written by MAN’S HAND….and therefore could as easily be conjured up by man’s mind (witness the hundreds of thousand of novels written every year!). Yes – you BELIEVE and have BLIND FAITH in something for which there is NO evidence whatsoever. And before you point to the existence of the universe….well creationists have a scientific theory to explain this which is equally as valid as your.
    When you said ‘the gloves were coming off’….I expected something more substantial than the reply you gave. I have yet to feel the knockout punch on my chin. 🙂
    A. Syam

    • The belief that there is no God is one that I find fascinating still.

      How does the atheist cope with the fact that there is something? Every body recognizes that something comes from something. Even in physics, mankind has never been able to “create” energy or mass. We can manipulate it and modify it but we’re powerless to create nor do we even know of any system where matter can be created or destroyed for that matter (pun intended).

      So the basic question is that if you truly believe in science, then where did the Big Bang come from? Did all that matter that was at the center of the universe just magically decide to come into existence and then magically decide to come together? Even more amazing is the fact that someone believes that an explosion can create something as detailed and amazing as the world we know.

      Evolution’s premise is that simple beings become more and more complex as they “evolve” to deal with their environment. The idea that minerals turn into proteins that turn into cells that turn into organs that turn into beings that turn into fish that turn into animals that walk and fly and talk and see and what not what not. The problem with this logic is that the more you drill down into the human body the more and more complex it gets at the cellular level. You have cells that are acting independently, like mitochondria and are able to live a symbiotic existence within a human body.

      Not only that, but osteoclasts and osteoblasts have such a magnificent relationship where by they sometimes kill each other in the human bone and trap each other by burying them in bone tissue. As you get to even further microscopic levels, we have cells that know when to kill themselves and when to replicate. Even further, we have proteins that almost magically fold themselves in correct patterns when there are millions of incorrect possible folding patterns.

      Did all of this happen by magic? Did it all happen by coincidence? Even the very “laws of physics” who came up with those? I mean who decided that gravity should be 9.8m/s^2? Why not 10? The many laws that we live by and don’t really question, why did it have to be that way?

      In the end, the atheist or even the agnostic who doesn’t really recognize God has no answer other than they just believe that. It seems to be pure blind faith.

      And as for being able to write a book that convinced 1,500,000,000 people (who are the ones who are alive) that there is a God and to completely change their lives to serve that God, I would say that it’s a book at least worth reading. I’d like to see one of those other 1000’s of other fiction novels do that.

    • Syam,
      I’m not sure what you are trying to accomplish here? Are you trying to understand why Muslims believe what they believe or are you just trying to get all the muslims on the planet to convert to atheism?
      Either way, I think you should read up on Islam a little bit more. I’ll leave it to my brother in Islam Abu Ibrahim to answer your questions, but I have two small points to mention from your comments:

      1. AT this point I have to add that you are a Muslim because you have bee brought up as a Muslim

      You should know that there a thousands of Muslims out there today who were raised as christians,jews,hindus and even atheists. They chose to accept Islam and become Muslims, no one forced them to.

      2. You and other religious beleivers rely on ancient texts which were written by MAN’S HAND….

      Again this shows your ignorance about Islam and Muslims. It’s almost common knowledge today that Muslims believe that the Quran was inspired to his Prophet Mohammed (peace be upon him) and he communicated it to his companions verbally as it was revealed. Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was an illiterate person who could not read and write so surely he coulnd’t have written the quran or forged it or made it up.

      • Thanks for your reply. No I am not trying to convert anyone to atheism……I just want people to not follow what they have been taught like sheep and without question. It is only by questioning everything we are told and what we observe that we are hopefully, able to reach the real truth about the universe that we see around us. Without questioning, we’d still be worshipping the sun and believing the earth was the centre of the universe!
        Though some Christians convert to Islam, there is a flow conversions from Islam to Christianity too……….and this in the face of the fact that Islam seriously frowns upon (to put it mildly)this act whereas there is no condemnation within Christianity if someone chooses to convert to any other religion.
        Next though I appreciate your comments regarding writings (Islam and Christanity alike) both being INSPIRED by some superior being, my point is that it was nevertheless physically WRITTEN by man’s hand…..and that being the case, the possibility that it was conjured up by a man is quite a valid one (Occams Razor ie for any given situation the simplest solution is usually the correct. one).

        • why are you here,anyway? its a forum for moslems(or non-moslem) to understand islam…there are tons of debate forums out there about existence of god, why dont you go there?,but in the end,the result is just atheist presumptions or word plays,which they believe something called logic. questioning things is important,i agree with you but burrying your self in taught then forget to really live your life is also not healthy you know,

          if you really dont believe in god,why do you spend so much time to research about it but in the end you only want to deny it? if you really want to be an atheist then just be it and leave us alone,we’ll know the truth at the end of the day anyway…

  4. Why are we so busy with Mr. Syam when all he is doing is disrespecting what we believe in?
    We aren’t asking him to convert, so why is he wasting his energy? Especially with us if we sound like we have no logic?…hmmm…. I think we should go and read another brilliant article of Brother Abu Ibrahim’s because we are missing out and wasting our time. Sometimes people accept what others believe and sometimes they like to upset people but hey, if you like that Mr.Syam and it makes you smile, go for it!

  5. @ Rocco, friend If he is here then Its because of Allah,s wiil.

    @ Syam,keep asking question, we humans wants the results very quickly, whereas Allah likes who shows patience…. Well i ll tell you a storry of our prophets time of Mr, Abu Lahab in one of the battle of that time before the battle he said Allah if you are there and right and absolute than kill me in this battle and you know what he lost his life in the same battle, but a logical thing would be he should ve said If there is Allah then please guide me to the right path what do you say, so my advice will keep arguing but with mind that if Abu Ibrahim,s Allah is existing than guide me to the right path and if he dont then Mr Ali Fawad Usmani became a Athiest (logical haan)what say cause I am a firm believer and Allah always helps me.

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